Herbie Herbert on Journey
melodicrock.com recently posted a great interview with former Journey manager Herbie Herbert. the music industry giant never minces words and gives it to you plain and straight. Herbert confirms a lot of what Journey fans have been wondering these last few years in the interview including the Steve Augeri tape-gate, Steve Perry losing his vocal ability and his thoughts on Jeff Scott Soto and current vocalist Arnel Pineda. it’s a great read. head on over to melodicrock for the full interview.
here are just a couple of interesting quotes from Herbert:
On Steve Augeri: …And the thing is, the whole time that you were rooting and rooting and rooting for Augeri I knew that there was problems. Not because I was going to shows but because right at the beginning my company shot the Vegas show that was put out on Direct TV. And the original footage of that they insisted, you know, people at my company insisted that I come and watch. And I go, please I wanna come and watch Journey on video, what the fuck? And they said no you have to set and watch this for a minute. I go why, you know, it was like torture. So I sat down and then it was torture. I said what’s going on here? I go man he’s really, he’s missing everything. He struggled so badly that night you can’t believe it. There was hardly anything that could be saved in the lead vocal and the problem was to me at that particular time was Neal Schon was grimacing when he would miss these notes.
On Steve Perry and vocal range: ..you know if you’re a half step down from a major to a minor or whatever, you know, it’s a significant change in the tonality and everything else. And for whatever reason, the band, Journey has always had an obsession with playing the songs in the original key. Despite the logic, the unavoidable logic, that if Steve Perry was still in the band, and I know that there’s a giant public out there that would love nothing more, they’re clueless to the fact that the guy can’t sing anymore. … Journey performed (at Bill Graham’s wake in ‘91), you take these songs and you get a tape of that and they took them down two whole steps. I mean, this is from E to A. They passed G to A, you know what I mean? Knocking ‘em down hard and Steve Perry’s voice was all broken up. So, you know, forget about it. It was just so revealing. That was in ‘91 at which point that day I hadn’t seen him since 1986 Raised on Radio and that was five years. And what an ugly encounter that was with Steve Perry that day…
On Jeff Scott Soto: He has much more of an alto voice. There was a lot of material, especially Raised on Radio material like I’ll Be Alright Without You that he might have done really well on but if you’re gonna try to do the really high songs like You’ve Got Something to Hide or La Do Da or whatever, I can’t recall, I went and saw them in concert and there was a bunch of material that was so far out of his reach he was just as bad as Augeri at his worst so you can’t. If you make a change it’s gotta be an upgrade. Kevin Chalfant would have been a much better choice at that point.
that’s Herbie Herbert for you. ya just gotta love ‘em!
Related posts:
I myself would love to see Greg Rolie back with Journey… not that it would ever happen but he was awesome in his day, and in many ways, better than Steve Perry ever was…..
[...] even here on retroblog, you can find a whole slew of posts about Pineda’s progress with Journey and the new album. with the kickoff of their summer tour looming in June and the release of their [...]
i went to a journey concert back in 1986 and got the band’s autograph
i got to go sit with the radio hosts and meet the band after the show
steve perry and neal were very pissy but randy jackson who i have never forgot meeting and the rest of the band were great and had great attitudes
anyway i finally found my sheet music page i had them sign and am trying to identify some of the autographs
if any of you fans want to take a hand at it and look at the photo of the autographs here
http://s226.photobucket.com/albums/dd71/catalyzt/?action=view¤t=journey_autographs.jpg
and tell me if who all you think the sigs are
i see mike baird, steve perry, randy jackson and possibly neal schon is in the top right but can’t make out the others at all.
robin@gator.net
let me know if you recognize any of them thanks
that’s awesome Robin! thanks for sharing the photo. I recommend posting the photo over at the Journey forums at melodicrock.com. I’m sure the fans over there will be able to help identify the signatures.
here’s the URL to the forums:
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/
steve perry is journey. no one sings like him and no one can replace him!
Very clear that Herbert has an axe to grind with Perry which seems to really cloud his judgement and his ability to be logical. Where to start? Let’s see-’He hasn’t sung since the 1980’s” Duh, what do you call the Trial By Fire Album, and For the Love of Strange Medicine, and the songs he did for the movie Quest for Camelot? Yeah, he was singing in a lower key, with the same power, same gorgeous voice, just not quite as high a tenor. And to trash Trial by Fire-’When You Love A Woman’ was nominated for a Grammy. He does it again when he said that Perry’s voice was shot in 1991 and he can’t sing anymore. His chronology proves that wrong-because Trial by Fire/Love of Strange Medicine were in the mid-1990’s and his voice was still PHENOMENAL! Funny also how Steve Smith didn’t want to stay with Journey when Perry couldn’t continue after the hip surgery. And Herbert saying ‘he won’t tour’ when they recorded Trial by Fire? Perry was the one who contacted THEM to get back together-so he definitely wanted to be part of the band again! Is Herbert saying he had his hip replaced before age 50-major surgery as a STUNT to avoid touring. The man may be a brilliant businessman, but most of the interview was him saying how he is next to God in the business world. He complains about Perry’s ego? I never read so much narcissism in one interview in my life. I just looked at all those videos again-and once again, he is full of crap about Perry not making eye contact or engaging the audience. Frankly, if Perry’s voice can be 1/2 of what it was in the late 1990’s, it will still outshine in emotion, depth, and musical craftsmanship anything that Journey has done before or since. Only thing I do agree with is that Rollie had a great voice for harmony and added variety to their repertoire. But there again, Herbert had to make it all about himself, when Rollie is on record that he just couldn’t face any more touring at that point-which Herbert chastised Perry for in the 1980’s when he had just lost his mother/long term relationship, and was punishing himself vocally. Herbert contradicted himself every time he turned around. Blames it on Perry’s ego, then admits that the constant touring destroys a voice-so he would rather burn a singer out that he represents and then discard him than allow the person to rest and retain their voice? Some manager-with friends like that who needs enemies? And his obsession with Schon could make a person feel like they never belonged-just like Perry said in 2001. You can make business decisions, but never feel that you are anything other than tolerated because they need you to use your talent to make money. And their reaction when he REALLY needed their understanding is to trash him incessantly. And yet you never read an interview where Perry trashes them. He is classy, dignified, and makes Herbert and Schon both look like immature, petulant, classless people who just resent Perry because Journey WASN’T making it commercially before Perry joined. And the song writing magic was there when the three of them-Cain, Perry, Schon wrote. But the ‘After All These Years’ of just Schon and Cain is one of the most insipid things I’ve ever heard-maybe next to ‘Close to You’ by the Carpenters…
Well, I was never a Journey fan in the day, but have just now discovered Perry’s catalogue. And he has more class and more talent than the deadhead wannabe Herbert will ever have. I give Herbert cred for what he did for them business wise, but sounds like Perry wanting Azoff in his stead may have been the wisest decision of all…
One more thing-how come you say that Perry has the ‘first nickel he ever made’, yet somehow it is his fault that Cain and Valory and Schon were in such poor financial straits? Could it be that Perry wasn’t a raging alcoholic like Schon (by his own admission), or a drug addict like Valory (like Herbert alleges?). Could it be that he didn’t have multiple marriages tank like Schon or get taken to the cleaners in divorce like Cain? Why is it his responsibility to burn himself out to make up for their irresponsibility, immaturity, and poor choices?
And apparently he needed to be a leader, since Herbert himself said in 2001 that Schon was too stoned or drunk half the time, and spent the rest of the time screwing women, that Valory was high and didn’t have any initiative to improve his guitar playing, and Cain so meanspirited that even after Perry helped him finish the song , ‘Open ARms’ that was rejected by the Babies, he acted like a child and tried to sabotage the recording by mocking Perry during recording. Why, apparently because, as Herbert himself said, Cain can’t sing well. He sneers at Perry’s having lost his mother-well, maybe that’s because his family, unlike Schon, didn’t allow a 15 year old boy to quit school and roam the country with a rock band. Maybe Perry’s family actually gave a damn, and as an only child from a close knit immigrant family, whose mother died a slow, debilitating death while he also lost his long term love relationship, maybe it mattered to him-and he didn’t get drunk to mask the pain like Schon or Valory.
Sounds like, after Rolie left, the only person who really WOULD step up and lead the band to success WAS Perry. And to fault him because he cared too much about the music to compromise? Well, that may have made him difficult to work with artistically, but these guys didn’t have his back socially from day one, because Herbert himself said that Schon hated him and didn’t want him-but they NEEDED him because Journey was in danger of losing their record deal.
And you know what-I doubt if they great producer/arranger David Foster would have hired Perry for the Quest for Camelot songs if his voice was shot. Herbert better get an ear-the man’s voice was stunning as late as 1996 or later-contrary to his assertion that he couldn’t sing after 1991. Mature-yes. Soulful, yes. A bit lower, yes. But lower isn’t the same as worse-it’s just lower!
And if it was less of a range, you made it worse with insisting that he should tour like a machine. Maybe the Grateful Dead tour incessantly-but they were never known for soaring vocals or memorable melodies.
Again-Herbert-brilliant businessman-but obviously so enmeshed with Schon that you couldn’t see anyone else-and I’m sure you and all the rest of the envious, jealous, resentful members of that band who resented that they NEEDED Perry to break out commercially always sent out vibes that he would never, really be accepted as a PERSON-and no amount of artistic success can erase that feeling that you are only tolerated as long as they can use you-and they used Perry for all he was worth-and continue to whine when he didn’t want to or wasn’t able to continue to prop them up. Is Schon a brilliant guitarist? Yes, but he is unstable in his personal life, uneducated, and until recently an addict of many years. Don’t fault Perry because he had enough insight and intelligence to educate himself, to apply himself to the business end of things in managing his affairs, and to personally grow so that he didn’t destroy himself.
Vicious people get what they sow, Mr. Herbert. Show me one, just ONE interview where Perry has trashed you publicly in the same way that you continue to malign him-he’s classy enough to keep his personal disagreements out of the press-or to couch them in careful, diplomatic terms. You are 60? Well, GROW UP!
You’re right on sooo many counts, Leah. The favoritism for Neal Schon on Herbie’s part speaks for itself. Having grown up in the height of Journey’s fame and in northern CA to boot, I knew everything they did! They were local boys, our band. It was common knowledge that Herbie Herbert was the wizard behind it all. I think Steve didn’t feel like part of the band because they didn’t want him in the beginning. Herbie was the one who saw his talent and pushed the issue. It was a wise choice, but a “careful what you wish for” choice, too. I think Steve really wanted a successful solo career so he could do his own thing. They were all on the brink with their respective careers. Alien Project was on the verge of a record deal when they lost a key member. Santana had gone south on Neal and Herbie, the Babys were going nowhere for Jon Cain. They just needed the right cohesion to make it all work and Journey was it. Credit to Herbie where it’s due. The problems started because when you have such strong, creative personalities and such talented ones – on all sides- there are bound to be conflicts. Those guys didn’t grow up together as friends starting a rock band in one of their garages like so many successful bands did. They were glued together by fate and Herbie Herbert. The difference with Steve Perry (no, I don’t personally know him, but I’ve been married to a man from a very similiar background for 18 years) is that he had a very simple, basic upbringing in the farming community of California. He had a strong Portuguese Catholic family structure and after his dad left, it was just him and his mom until she remarried. Of course he was devoted to her. He was brought up that way and, with no siblings, she was all he had.
Being the wife of an eldest son in a Portuguese Catholic family, I can tell you
that her illness and ultimate loss was devastating for him. I’m surprised he came through it as well as he did. If Neal Schon’s family let him run off at 15 and quit school to be in a rock band, so be it. That would explain why Steve was called “the mama’s boy”.
I really think Steve’s only mistake was in looking back at all. He should have left in ‘84 and not gone back to Journey. If his mom told him to go back, it was probably because she wanted him to have the security rather than risking it all on a solo career. I could understand that. I’m a mother, too.
The bottom line is that Journey is what was for them and for all of us. I was one of those screaming teenage girls in 1981 (18 to be precise!) who would wait for days at Bass or Ticketron to see them at the Cow Palace. It was a time I will never forget and it helped shape the person I am now. I thought Steve Perry was pure magic & Journey too fantastic to be real and when you saw them live in those days – they were! But, those days are gone and I feel like Neal, Jon, Ross, etc. should have let the whole thing fade into the sunset untarnished, untampered-with, whole and complete in every way. Just like my memories. The Beatles broke up and everyone got over it. I hate the fact that they go on tour still calling themselves Journey without Steve and play their hits over and over. As if anyone could perform those songs the way he did. He can’t even perform them the way he did anymore! Herbie’s not the only one who got older! We all did. Even Van Halen went on to do new material! They need to stop living in the past and maybe spend more time with their grandkids!
There was one more thing I wanted to comment on. Herbie Herbert said in the Castles Burning interview that Journey is out touring today and Steve Perry is getting paid just like he was out there with them. If that’s the case, my compliments to Steve Perry. I found it offensive that Herbert didn’t believe that Steve had the injury in Hawaii – he basically called Steve a liar more than once. I don’t know what the basis for that is, but hip replacement surgery is no joke.
The fact that Steve wanted to explore other alternatives is understandable and for the rest of them to dump him because he couldn’t do the tour at that time has to be a violation of some ADD or labor law. If Journey was part of a corporation and Steve was an employee of that corporation, they can’t just fire him because he had an accident and couldn’t report to work. The other thing I recently discovered is that Journey is going to be on Oprah this Friday! I won’t be home, but I’m recording that one! I can’t believe I saw a video of them with Arnel Pineda and he’s wearing tuxedo tails! That was a Steve Perry trademark!
It’s a deliberate slap in the face! Arnel has a fine voice and he covers their songs really well, but he isn’t Steve Perry and he shouldn’t have to dress like him. I saw an interview with them and Arnel kept calling Neal “Mr. Neal Schon”. What is with that???? I guess they finally found what they were looking for in a lead singer. Someone who will pay homage to the great Neal Schon, do exactly what he’s told, and be grateful for the life he has now. It’s just what Herbie said they would do. Go on tour, play the hits ad nauseum for the die hard fans and just keep burning singers out one after another.
It’s so sad.
Wow! some very interesting reading. I grew up knowing many of the Band Members before they even knew each other .(Meaning,I Grew up with Steve Perry as a very close friend ) in Hanford Ca. our parents were best friends so we met and hung out from 1955 until Steve quit Journey .He will no longer answer any of his best friends phone calls, he still owns his grandfathers ranch on 10th ave. in Hanford.It is for sale! anyone interested. It still has a very small dairy building on it . Now how I met some of the other band members before they ever knew of Steve Perry. I was a BIG fan of Santana there band was awesome back in the first few Albums days before Woodstock day’s Both Steve and I had a Mutual great friend his name was Larry Luciano who lived in San Francisco on Noe street. I used to go stay with him for weeks at a time . I met Herbie there when he was (as he told me) a Roadie for Santana. I met most of the Band there from time to time. and many other musicians. I guess Larry was sort of there Spritual Advisor for lack of a better word . It was then Santana broke- up and Neal, Gregg, and Herbie put together what would soon become the band Journey after 3 albums that were great to me, but not to the rest of the world. It was then Herbie or so I was told, felt they needed a front man that could sing.This is what Larry Luciano and Steve Perry told me that Larry told Herbie about this guy he knew that was a singer from Lemoore. Mary, Steves mom had remarried Marv Rohtman from Lemoore so Steve was living there when not on the road trying to make it in the music business. Herbie did have the ear and forsight to know Perry would soon take them on the ride of a life time. Making them all as rich as they could ask for . Steve was wise beyond his years about money maybe to much so.But while in Journey he treated his friends like they were part of his life he loved. He even formed his private group of close Buddies and Named us the Lotus Bowl 5 + 2 but two have passed away. So no longer talking to Steve I have No Idea what has happened to him. But I will say I am afraid for him, he is almost always with body guards now, even while attending his best friends funeral this does not add up to me. He wants nobody to know where he lives even though he can walk about with not many people knowing who he is or if they do, not bothering him. I do know Steve is a great father and his daughter is a sweetheart Shamila was robbed of knowing her father until she was teenager so it was tuff on both of them. Well for what my opinion is worth I am split .I love Steve and always will but he might dislike me because I was a friend who told him he owed Herbie for he would not have had the chance to prove to the world he was and will always be one of the best tenor’s to ever sing, his voice still give’s me Goose bumps. But now on the other hand, To Steve’s credit he not only made Herbie a rich man for making a great choice but he made the band rich too and as someone said before me, if they lost there money from bad choices, its on them not Steve. As Steve told me, Neil can play everyday and not have to worry about hitting all the high notes a singer earns his Top Dog Status because he has the most to worry about, like a sore throat a cold, allergy.stuffy noise.So Herbie, best of luck and keep Looking, there are new Stars born everyday all over this Universe, you just have to do it all over again and Steve I love you and hope your not between a rock and a hard place.You earned a Peaceful life if you ever want to talk you got my number , I tried to call you before I said a word but you would not answer me so i felt , I would give your side and try and be fare to Herbie
I say kudos and I am quite envious jeanette oliver of the (setlists) and caliber of shows when Journey was coming up.
from In the Beginng. Without any animosity to Dirty Dozen fans Every time I request mixing in some of
the early material or non-comercial gems like Living to do from Arrival or Red 13 I get attacked on the site. For the record I searched forever for this concert that Herbie said
was one of Gregs last with the band. I encourage all Journey fans to check out this (Herbie Herbert’ choice for Journey at its best.) You tube 1980 in japan. Herbert is absolutely right its an incredibal Journey show including
Greg Rolie and Steve Perry.I found it years later on You Tube. I got emotional seeing Japanese fans clearly appreciating Of a Lifetime, Kahoutek, and other tunes from the first three progressive rock fusion and blues.The normally reserved Japanese fans are going nuts.I may be die hard fan rather than dirty dozen. I also loved Robert Fleishman’s crator bowl Hawaii concert slightly different
Winds of March and a strong little Known song called all for you. . I strongly recommend to all fans the Chicago Sounstage concert. Steve Perry dueting with Rollie on awsome Look into the future and Infinity Winds of March.
ect. cuts. Then Perry shows his diversity Superjam II with perry’s Roadrunner and Rollie’s Borna under a Bad sign.
Don’t let me forget Journey’s blues Jam with guests like
Albert King and at Soldier’s Field unstaging the Rolling Stones. During the evolution tour I could still get front row seats I remembers sending my girlfreind up to request material from NEXT. Every artist has a bad show and I observed Greg Rolie Pulling on the curtain behind his
B-3. As Neal broke away from the setlist to honor our requests. The curtain was Rolie saying lets do Feeling that way and anytime. Steve Perry when I saw them in Hawwai told me Boston was a tough market for Journey to crack. Elswhere they began to sell out stadiums. These days I have honestly seen better sound checks with Rolie, Kevin Chalfant and
incredible guitarist Kurt Griffey who seemlessly moves from Santana’s signature sound to Neal Schon’s. There is not
one song or schon cover I am currently interested in seeing. I read all about Neal blaming the fans as he hates the pop dirty dozen but fans “go for a hot dog” when he trys to treat them to less commercial song selections. Fast forward Presently I would not bother to see them. I felt litterally fleeced during the 30th anniversary tour. To please all the fans it was a two part show. Fans like myself were to get early material. As fans of the dirty dozen hits could come in later a intermission and see their Journey. By the time Neal and the band hit the Chevrolet center in Conecticut. Neal obviously gutted 85 to 90% of the first 4 album selections they had done sold out in Boston a couple of months before. I sure would like my money back for that one. I was heartsick when Of a lifetime and other 30th anniversary songs were deleted. Why with his talent being up there with Clapton’s and mutual love of the blues? Open up a show gut out promised classics with Steve Augieri’s voice gone to boot.Neal has to look at what Clapton does to please his blues and serious fans along with fans who came to hear the commercial hits. I would come back if Arnel could cover more Infinity. Dream after Dream with awsome versions of When the love has gone and Little Girl. Loving you is easy, Living to do. Any thing from Neal’s fantastic Pirahna Blues CD or any RED 13.
Petra the lead commentator is on the money.
Petra would probably censored the official site.
I wish to share a recent incredible gift from none other
than Greg Rollie.
I e-mailed an interest to see the Greg Rollie band down at
Mohegan Sun Casino.
Greg E-mailed me back saying the show would be no-charge
for my wife and I. He said if we came to Early afternoon
souncheck we could chat and he and the band including original Santana members would sign any pictures albums ect.
What a performance Kevin Chalfant Whom Herbie Herbert says
blew his chance to replace steve Perry by putting out a
Journey covers CD. They covered awsome versions of classics
off of Abraxus then highlighted Santana hits in which he had
sung lead vocals Black Magic Woman, Evil Ways And Oye como va.
The closed with Kevin Chalfant doing the Perry parts of
Journey Infinity and Evolution. Talked to Greg again after the show suggesting covering Fire at NIght in Which Carlos , Neal and Greg has written and Jammed on. He told me he had forgotten how good this song from Gringo was. He even re-released it through his Website ( Amust for any Journey Or Santana fan) I think Herbie Herbert’s frankness is refreshing. His vision was for Journey to become to have a following like the Greatful Dead’s loyal fans. Can any one tell me if Herbie is in Cameron Crowe’s bio movie about his early Rolling stones mag. Fellow die hards should check out SY KLOPS Herbie’s blues band with Journey. members
Herbie is clearly a narcissist,as made evident by his failure to realize that the person who comes off looking the worst in his interviews is himself. He should have listened to his mommy when he was a little boy. I am sure that she said the same things all mommies say in their attempt to teach their children society’s mores.
Here are a few key rules that he ignored:
1) “If you can’t say something nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.”
2) “Never blow your own horn.”
3) “Unless your speaking to your accountant, never discuss money.”
Okay, I just broke rule #!, but at least I know that I did something wrong. I am trying to feel bad about it….really trying.
One more comment. Steve CAN still sing. Check out the vid posted of Steve singing “Faithfully” in 1994 in NYC (FTLOSM tour). Granted, his voice is different. It was different as far back as “Raised on Radio,” but to say that he can’t sing anymore is preposterous. Personally, I prefer his new voice. His old, soaring vocals were simply jaw-dropping, but his new raspiness is sexy, sexy, SEXY.